#don’t even get me started on the people who hate non canon shippers | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

lai-mar · 11 months ago

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You know, I really appreciate that you’re out here defending this widely hated relationship. Maybe it’s because the anime-only fans are a very vocal majority right now, but I’ve seen people who ‘watched the anime then read the manga’ *still* shit on Laios and Marcille’s friendship. Like you don’t have to ship it but if you deny that they care about each other or deny that they have chemistry, did you even read the comic?? ‘Oh they’re just siblings/siblings-in-law!’ have you ever had a sibling. have you ever had a sibling-in-law. they do not act like siblings they act like *intimate* best friends. ‘Ridiculously comfortable around each other’ best friends. They have a relationship outside of Falin, that is what develops over the entire damn story. 90 chapters. What comic were you reading where you think Marcille can barely stand him.

Thanks for the ask! Very cathartic to see this. About to go on another rant again lol (will be repeating some of my old points but yeah I need to get it out of my system)

"Defending widely hated relationship" + "anime-only fans are a very vocal majority"

Okay, let me play devil's advocate for a second here. Let's say I despise L/M as a ship and it squicks me out greatly and I think it's a boring ship of pairing the male lead and the female lead. What should I do? Obviously go into L/M posts and argue about it instead of blocking the tag and stating my stance my calmly when someone asks me like your average fan who knows how to curate their fandom experience.

Okay, more devil's advocating. I despise L/M as a ship but I have read the manga and engaged with it critically and understood its themes. Which means I like L+M as a friendship in the same way I like the themes of eating and life cycle and the friendship between the party and the worldbuilding. Because all of these are core parts of the story told. So what I do is to block all shippers and ship tag and look for platonic fics and fanart like Your Average Fan Who Curates Their Experience.

Like I'm sorry. I genuinely feel some people are so caught up in the intense fanonisation of DM that they start forgetting about canon. And I KNOW I am not the only one feeling this way because I read the notes on my posts and other people's posts and there's a lot of good thoughts on this. Plenty of people appreciate them. But to some people in the wider fandom, are we reading the same manga? Our male lead and female lead are friends who save each other. They are not together canonically. So canonically, they don't even get into the way of shipping?????? People can have important intimate friendships outside of romance??? And it's a canon well established friendship? I would say it's one of the most well developed dynamics in the series that we see? We get shown and not told? We see images and words and interpret them in our brains?

Devil's advocate level 3. Let's say mainstream fanonisation of DM is real. F/M is a canon ship and they get together and they get married in the end and L+M become sibling in laws. Maybe L/K is a thing. This still does not erase the entire journey L+M and co went on to save Falin. This still does not erase their friendship and chemistry.

"‘Oh they’re just siblings/siblings-in-law!’ have you ever had a sibling. have you ever had a sibling-in-law."

Okay. I do have a sibling. At this point I've long accepted this much be some sort of cultural difference and some weird American / Western thing I am not used to. And the hilarious thing about DM is that we do get canon siblings!!! It's the fucking premise! Falin and Laios!! And they're fun!

I'm sorry but this must be some cultural difference. Like no younger sibling is calling their older sibling by their GIVEN NAME. The sheer disrespect. I'll be scandalised. As a person with a sibling I don't understand the fandomisation of making non related people siblings in fanon? I'm calling my friends my friends, not siblings. My sibling is like a sibling to me. My friends are like friends to me. Idk. I've written the word sibling so many times that it doesn't seem like a word anymore.

Obviously these are just my personal thoughts but I feel like objectively, there has been a fandomwide trend of grabbing a canon friendship between a man and a woman and going "THEY ARE SO SIBLINGS CORE XD" (not siblings in canon) (not related) (don't even look similar) (they're friends). A lot of times this is valid and even fun but sometimes I get the feeling people sometimes push the fanon sibling thing to show they're squicky about them romantically. To which I can only say: a man and a woman can genuinely only be friends. If you need to magically make them related so you / other people won't see their friendship romantically... it feels like a step back. Why are we doing heteronormativity.

I think I'm the type of person who enjoys and mains man + woman friendships in fandoms (which are, unsurprisingly, unpopular as ships and even as friendships until I start spreading propaganda and pumping fics on Ao3), and I think one of the things that get me is. A man who could be attracted to women + a woman who could be attracted to men having great chemistry but staying friends. I want to stress this is different from a man who is not interested in women / romance + a woman who is not interested in men / romance because there is almost zero chance of a reciprocal romantic relationship going on. But for the first case, which I feel like many people dumb down to "straight people shipping", it's even more precious for them to stay friends and not give into the heternormative expectations despite one or both of them possibly (but not necessarily) being heterosexual. Like, here are two people who could date each other but they're like "nah we work better as friends, so we stay friends". To me, this is one fantastic argument for friendship. Not everything has to be romantic. Even better if they considered and thought about the logistics, but decide their relationship is more special non romantically. Having a taste of how their relationship could go and going "thanks, but no thanks". Is this not a great display of sincere and stable friendship compared to people going "lol they can't work as a ship because they simply physically cannot tolerate the thought of each other romantically". I'm rambling here but I feel like this is what I feel across various dynamics and fandoms. At this point, I think somehow non romantic relationships genuinely fascinate me more than ships. Save me QPR save me.

"They have a relationship outside of Falin"

I feel like some manga readers have missed the point so badly when it comes to this. It's hilarious. They have a relationship outside of Falin it's the whole fucking point about coming to terms with grief and death! You know, one of the core themes of this story that you finished!

And of course this doesn't erase the love they have for Falin. Falin is clearly beloved and their main motivation, but hilariously enough (for the L+M deniers), the manga shows Laios and Marcille's "true" innermost desires being granted and it's not about reviving Falin even though they both clearly want her back and it's at the forefront of their minds. Laios turns into a monster. His curse isn't about Falin not coming back (even though that was his immediate thought), it's about him not being able to interact with monsters ever again. Marcille was traumatised by what happened to Falin (nightmare chapter) but when she turns into a dungeon lord, she goes about trying to fix the lifespans, showing her fear of loneliness and all her loved ones (NOT just a single person!!!!!!!!) dying before her. You can argue they didn't revive Falin with magic lord powers because they don't trust the lion / trust their own plan of eating her, but I think the manga focuses enough on their desires for the interpretation of "the lion fulfills their innermost desires that define their existence" to work. Marcille is the one who finds Laios first after he turned back and Laios broke Marcille free from the lion's influence etc etc we know they play a part in each other's arcs. Laios says they wouldn't be on this journey if Falin hadn't been digested. Marcille says in the end she was okay with Falin not being brought back this time. Laios invites Marcille to stay with him. It's in the text.

"Boring straight ship" or whatever

This comes from what a friend said about my main duo of another fandom but it's like "why isn't [ship] more popular" "because it's easy to fall into the boring trope of pairing a man and a woman together".

And this is a thing that does happen! But not to pairings with strong canon foundation and chemistry sorry. Don't look at me, look at canon. A male/female ship with good canon support is a good ship. Why are you surprised. People like shipping characters who spend lots of time together saving each other and all that. Dare I say: sometimes (sometimes) shipping "straight people" is more respectful to their canon friendship than shoehorning them as siblings. Which I believe is true in the case of L+M.

Anyways. Well that was a nice angry rant. Sorry I had to get it out of my system. I've spend too much time writing this so I won't be doing much proofreading lol. If you've reached this point, thanks for reading <3

#ask box #answered #mine #salt #so many thoughts lol #bottom line be respectful dont go into ship tags bitching abt ships #which is why i try to avoid main tags #dungeon meshi spoilers

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zvtara-was-never-canon · 10 months ago

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For someone who praise bloodbending so much, some zutara shippers… don’t seem to know what bloodbending is? And, specifically, what it is for Katara.

More than once did I find episodes in zutara fanfiction where Katara uses “bloodbending” for healing, and almost every time it is just… just regular healing or even plain waterbending on blood. Literally, one time it was a hemotransfusion performed with waterbending. And THAT was called bloodbending in the fic, by several different characters!

Is it this difficult?

Making other’s body move against the owner’s will – that IS bloodbending, that’s the definition Hama gave, that’s literally the purpose of the technique.

Making blood continue its natural flow while the blood vessel is damaged – that is NOT bloodbending.

Performing a hemotransfusion – that is NOT bloodbending.

And, don’t get me wrong, maybe, just MAYBE, there could be some positive aspects of bloodbending – hypothetically; the canon just showed us a pretty new technique invented by someone who suffered very much and is full of hate, so, who knows? someday someone else may find a non-evil way to use it – but it’s highly unlikely that KATARA will ever explore this. She was abused and traumatized by this technique, she’s terrified by it! I doubt that’s a good start for thinking anything nice about bloodbending. It’s not that she will avoid the thoughts about bloodbending, it’s that she will have troubles thinking about bloodbending in a positive light.

I don't mind it when fans try to incorporate bloodbending as being part of healing through waterbending, I really don't, even when it isn't exactly the most medically accurate thing ever - it's fiction about a world where people bend the elements. Bloodbending itself would technically have to be musclebending since just moving the bloodstream doesn't make the body part as a whole move, but that just doesn't sound as cool/ominous as fuck.

The problem is, like you mentioned, Katara's experience with bloodbending is literally through abuse and trauma. She learned it the time an adult she thought she could trust violeted said trust by, quite literally, luring her to the woods to do things to her body against her will, where nobody could hear her scream for help. Said adult then forced her to fight her best friend and brother, then watch the two of them nearly kill each other.

Finding out "bloodbending can be used for good" doesn't change shit - she HAD to use it against Hama, and it saved herself, Sokka and Aang. Katara was still crying and feeling helpless because doing something you strongly believe is wrong will make you feel bad, no matter how important the thing that forced your hand was.

Let's imagine a different scenario here. Lets imagine Zuko is desperately trying to save someone's life, and to do so, he'll have to cauterize a wound on the person. Zuko, the character that was once disfigured by his abusive father, will now have to hold someone down and burn them, even though he doesn't want to, even though he can hear the other person crying in pain and begging him to stop.

Does that sound "empowering" and like it'd make him see the act of literally burning people in a different light, or would it just be yet another traumatic event he'd have nightmares about, even if it literally helped save someone?

The same logic applies to Katara having to use bloodbending. It does not matter how inevitable and morally justiable it was, Katara didn't want to use bloodbending on Hama because she KNOWS it is both painful and terrifying, and she's disgusted by the moral implications of removing someone's ability to have any control over their own body.

Would she use it again if she absolutely had to? Of course, and maybe it could be in the context of healing instead of in battle. She'd still feel like shit and like she did something terrible, not be "empowered."

#anti zutara #katara meta

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numberonenarinderhater · 4 months ago

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CW: dubcon mention, DV mention

I have so much to say to you that it is unfathomable, oh my god ,

To start, I don’t actually hate narilamb because I like toxic ships, I HATE how delusional it’s stans are, he would NAWT be the lambs uwu loverboy and it’s shocking how fluffy narilamb content is because the amount of delusion it takes to get there is just???

Bro literally made a genocide victim do his bidding and then demand they KILL THEMSELVES for his benefit, and the people who lament the fact the lamb can’t kill themselves for Narinder (I’ve literally seen people write fan fiction where the lamb looooooves Narinder so much that they can’t wait to die for him 🤮🤮🤮 (erasing narinders manipulation of them too what!?!))

I’ve never understood why people feel the need to whitewash a ship, there is no version of narilamb that’s healthy you don’t have to do gymnastics and bend the characters into flanderized versions of themselves, the most “healthy” the ship could be is if Narinder lives as The Lambs concubine or something but even then the power imbalance would make the consent of it dubious at best, and I’m not even saying they can’t ship it but ALL THE STRECHING to make it healthy/fluffy is insane to me

HIS ASS WOULD NOT SAY/DO THAT 😭😭😭😭😭😭 that is NOT his personality

You’re the first person I’ve seen outside of myself to think that leaving the bishops in purgatory is a good idea, I’ve never heard anyone else express this in any way, forever ass beating is a punishment they’ll deserve for as long as the lambs remain dead, even though I like them! (Also one of the first to call Narinder a cunt, which he is! Big love hate relationship with him, just like with the other bishops, don’t know why people think he’s the good bishop, since lamb and goat are the only innocents here)

This fandom is so fucking AMANORMATIVE too, they gotta thrust everyone into a ship even if it doesn’t fit, god it’s not AS BAD as other fandoms I’ve seen (mouthwashing fandom is HELL) and even if it does fit many characters in this fandom get their entire personalities watered down to their “other half” (narinder the lamb, Leshy and the yellow cat, sozo and shamura)

I do think there’s a tendency to misrepresent everything in canon to favor whichever they ship, and I think the devs very intentionally fashion the narrative to pander to the shippers

Take goat/lamb as a ship (this ship is proof to me that the devs do a Lot of pandering) they basically BUILT the goat to be a character shipped with the lamb in every single way??? Like just thinking about goatlamb for more than 5 seconds, they’re literally COUNTERPARTS, yin and yang, souls bound across actual TIMELINES, their crowns can fuse together, (and it’s implied they can also fuse together/share bodies to some degree, literally at the end of the goats DEBUT TRAILER) the devs advertise the update by announcing they can have SEX with each other and then narilamb fans see this and go

“Hmm I don’t like this i like narilamb instead” and the devs turn around and immediately jump to pandering to them that’s crazy 😭 (it’s also an example of how out of touch the narilamb fans are 💀)

They then try to ship the goat with literally everyone ELSE but the lamb, Shamura n the goat make a little sense, they’re both war like, abrasive, then you start seeing shit like leshygoat, hekket x the goat! KALLAMAR and the goat, all to avoid shipping the goat with characters they have shit in common with… in a game

THAT HAS LITERAL POLYAMORY, and they say they see the goat as the lambs sibling so lambgoat shippers are the bad ones 🧍as if narilamb isn’t the HEIGHT OF TOXICITY in non abusive ships I don’t think they could get worse without adding literal DV

In conclusion, oh Thank GOD, I like this blog fucking FINALLY!

Hell yes brother!! I made this blog to find people like you so thank you for following my beacon all the way here ♡ ♡

I love the bishops don’t get me wrong! But them becoming vengeful and un-rested ghosts is a rad and deserving punishment for them, I think. I think the bishops are the good bishops here so I’m surprised that anyone things Narinder is the best one out of the original 5. You can say a lot about them being harsh, cruel, vindictive, and defensive (and they are!) but they actually made a plan and followed through with it admirably. Shamura’s genius was really on display back there and I do have to give credit where it’s due. The other bishops’ existence makes Narinder look bad and incompetent lolll.

I agree that shipping takes up way too much of the fandoms response to the game- especially when I’m desperate to piece together the lore of the game’s world that we get in those blood stone tablet thingies? I don’t see enough speculation into that and I’m DYING to know. The mystic seller? The owl? The fox? There are simply so many things to focus on here!! It’s a beautiful and harsh world with its own unique charm and character and I’m hungry for more information about it. In general I think we have a tendency to only focus on romance in fandoms in general. (and I stay farrrr away from the mouthwashing fandom lol mainly for the ridiculous amounts of ableism with how curly is portrayed by fans)

I think you say it better than I ever could here:

“I do think there’s a tendency to misrepresent everything in canon to favor whichever they ship, and I think the devs very intentionally fashion the narrative to pander to the shippers”

Granted I am the wrong person to talk to about goat x lamb pandering bc I am falling for it hook line and sinker. BUT! I at least think their dynamic as mirrored counterparts or aspects of one another that is cool and interesting! More so than narilamb. But I’ll admit to drinking this particular flavor and liking it. Yum yum propaganda.

I must say I have never heard of any of these goat pairings except for shamura?? They sound a bit far-fetched to me but…. Go off to all those who partake?? I guess mainly I’m just baffled by the fact that people would hate lamb x goat that much and also feel the need to put goat with someone? You could simply not pair them at all- especially if the alternatives are that off the wall.

It’s weird that anyone would think of the goat and the lamb as siblings?? I think the closest label you could apply to them are maybe… idk? Narrative foils? Magical clones maybe? Regardless the means by which they could be related are so far removed from reality that to cry incest is a bit absurd. It’s like looking at a Fae changeling and deciding that the human they’re supposed to be mimicking is their twin.

Thank you again for this wonderful ask. You’re so right and correct and smart

#cotl #anti narinder #narinder hate #narilamb is white bread

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kerakeriza · 8 months ago

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hi! i just wanted to answer your question about why people talk about bruce and dick having a gay relationship! (it’s kind of a weird interest of mine so i’m coming at this with 100% excitement of wanting to share stuff i’ve learned and 0% hate or malice). so it was kind of like a joke starting around the late 1940s/50s when batman started becoming more “campy” but wasn’t widespread or serious until this psychologist fredric werthem wrote a whole ass book called seduction of the innocent where he like basically blamed batman for turning kids gay. which is. hmmm. anyways from there i think the relationship started to be looked at with more of a microscope so platonic instances between the pair were viewed as more romantic and specifically homosexual. then it became even more of a rampant running joke when batman the 1960 tv series came out and it was full of camp and innuendo. im pretty sure the actor that played robin even said something about homosexuality being implied/a possibility in his book but don’t take my word for it. after this more campy era when batman started becoming more gritty and especially after movies like the dark knight this kind of became forgotten. if this is truly something you’re interested in i would recommend reading the essay batman, devience, and camp by andy medhurst. i hope my block of text doesn’t bother you too much, and i apologize if i misunderstood your original post! i also want to mention that the actual relationship bruce and dick have is (at least to me and other non shippers but no hate) a father son relationship and this is more about the general public’s perception on their relationship in the mid 20th century who weren’t necessarily fans of batman and probably didn’t know much of the backstory. but that’s where that comes from i think. have a great day!

Thank youuu for coming in with an answer to my wee little question~

I won't lie, I did want to get more about the actual comics, because I feel like there's been too much conflating of actual comics history with, like, the history of how people respond to those comics. Sure, it's a part of the overall history surrounding comic books, but it's also quite different, you feel me? As for the ship poll context... when it comes to pushing for BruDick as a ship, I don't really care about how famous it is among homophobes, I care more about their actual canon dynamics. What makes them interesting as a pair? What do the actual fans think/thought back in the day? So thank you for answering that latter question! It was jokes for fun then, I see. :)

Yay for having fun with it!

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anti-katsuki-lounge · 2 years ago

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I heard that dekacchan is being blasted on twitter? God! I wish more mhatwt, bkdks or non bkdks reunite and realize that what dekkachan did was not just defending bkdk ship, but also ship hate and character bashing. And believe me, even I am also a bkdk shipper but their annoying long threads are very delusional and it makes me sick that I had to unfollow and block them. They're also in the same discord with me and it's always cringe to see their post about why bkdk is canon or else it's a bad series

Lol yeah, she’s getting blasted for this:

Look, I get that women in Shonan haven’t had the best runs and I get what she’s trying to say: Shonan women have primarily been used as love interests and/or eye candy for the male characters/audience. Is she right? I dunno. However, calling women baby factories for wanting to have kids (something these characters wanted, how well they’re written be damned)? That’s just sexist 😭. Women can choose to have kids and settle down without being reduced to being “baby factories”. Same way a woman can choose to be single, adventurous, and child-free without being reduced to her relationship status. As long as they’re not hurting anyone and are happy/healthy, what someone does with their life shouldn’t be judged.

When called out, her minions are still defending her, saying that context matters. Here’s the thread she was replying to:

Dude was calling out BkDk Stans. You can argue that “who are not gay” wasn’t necessary and I agree but pointing out a character’s sexuality is nowhere near as bad as calling women baby factories just cause said woman decided to settle down after a long adventure.

This whole situation was so funny cause then M!preg was brought into the mix, people claiming that Izuku is often reduced to a housewife in these AUs, which is true. Yet her followers come out with this:

Like the mental gymnastics here are crazy 😂. No one was even talking about whether LGBTQ+ relationships are being pushed. They were talking about Izuku being turned into what Dekkachann describes and her supporting such a thing, which is hypocritical af.

My favorite thing tho is that Dekacchann is a huge hypocrite. She says this yet actively encourages harassment and plays victim when called out.

This is a woman who is 26 btw acting like a 14 year old discovering shipping for the first time. Lady, it ain’t that serious 😭. It’s a ship involving kids. Like wtf? Like I know I bash and make memes about BkDk but those only take me like five seconds out of my day to make and I’m only active on Tumblr when I ain’t doing shit. Sometimes I’m on this blog while I’m shitting. This woman’s life revolves around this ship to the point where it’s become a legitimate obsession and seems to influence her life.

I don’t care where you lie on the BkDk scale. Love it, hate it, it don’t matter. I’m a “you do you, I’ll do me, and unless you bother me, I ain’t gonna bother you” kinda person. What really matters is that this woman is a toxic person on the internet and that BkDk antis and fans should recognize this. Thankfully it seems anyone who’s not in her hivemind is doing so. You know someone is toxic when even members of their own community hate her 😂.

Also, do not go and harass her. I do not condone that shit, even with someone as problematic as her. What I’m saying to recognize that she’s toxic and if she starts harassing people, to either call her out on it or report her.

#anti katsuki bakugou #anti bakugo katsuki #anti bakugo #anti bakugou

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fandomele · 3 years ago

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Want me to write an essay about entitled fans of fanon couples and how annoyed I am? Here I am. I don’t expect anyone to actually read it all or even respond, I just want to vent. I’ll use “mlw” for any ship that involves a man and a woman to avoid having to specify all possible orientations, wlw for two women and mlm for two men. And just to be clear, before anyone replies that there isn’t enough lgbt-ness in shows and it must be fought for, I agree. But this is not about them, it’s about entitled fans of all fanon ships who are now following a specific script to get what they want, harassing and hiding behind social justice issues.

The only reason I especially mention shippers who are into 2 famous fanon wlw couples (supercorp and swanqueen) is that it’s the same group of shippers moving from one big show to another, picking over and over the same type of female character to pair with the female hero, and projecting. But this behavior happens with mlw ships as well and mlm ships and it’s not about representation at all. We all know shippers who wanted the guy to get the girl even if she canonically dislikes him, and that meant wanting the good guy she actually loves dead, making up horrible accusations against the canon partner and the writers because the other guy should win. Or those shows were two men are shipped together and therefore the fans call for all the women in their lives to be gone, they are evil, they are badly written, whatever. I heard a mess happened in Star Wars, people shipping a mlw couple and getting the movie to change, and I have been told 99,99% of Supernatural female characters had to die because the fans hated anyone who took attention away from Dean/Sam and Dean/Castiel, but I don’t know if it’s true and I don’t know enough about those fandoms to speak about it, so I’ll only talk about what I’ve been a part of. I can’t anti-tag properly or it will appear in their ship tag. Again, I’m not talking about fans advocating for more representation in general, I’m talking about fans who are harassing real people because they want the couple they chose to be canon or to be treated as such no matter what the writers clearly mean to convey and how the show has been written up until then, or even if the show is already very pro-lgbt with non cis and non straight characters in the main cast since it’s all irrelevant to them, because what these fans really want is control over other people and their stories, and to make their fave couple (genders are irrelevant), the couple where they are obviously projecting their feelings and themselves, become canon, and they are using real life issues as a tool to get it because how can ‘silence’ someone fighting against sexism/racism/homophobia etc (and obviously it’s not what’s happening. I’m not talking about people who are right and denuncing racism, for example), because they know that mixing what they want with what is politically correct, even if it’s not true, will give them a platform, an audience of innocent people trying to find out what’s happening there, and may force a show in a different direction. Forget the fact that people who actually fight for social issues will lose credibility and the chance to make a change, the important thing is that they get what they want, how they want it, and because they want it.

If their ship is not made canon everybody will have to pay - and regardless of canon-ness these ships must be always be discussed by writers and cast as ‘equally important to the canon ships’, and these ‘fans’ are blatantly feeling good and cool about being able to harass the cast and other people because they are teaching them a lesson. I mean literally gloating about it in their posts.

And it’s scary that new, young, shippers are join fandoms and to groups where they can start feeling a sense of belonging, and these groups directly and indirectly teach them to be as extreme and rigid as possible in their beliefs, and they lead each member, step by step, into finding these behaviors normal, acceptable, and in fact also lead them to mix their own identity and beliefs with the group’s beliefs. These groups of ‘bad apple’s trajectory is towards becoming more and more extreme because each new person who joins in takes one more step away from what’s acceptable, because they feel that everything that has happened before their arrival is justified and righteous and to them the next step is very small, even if it’s a giant distance from where fandoms were at before.

*note: brief mention of rape/abuse because I mention non-canon accusations that happened in the ouat fandom + the fact that it did happen in the canon show. I mention other issues that are used against/to defend ships as well without getting descriptive, and a mention of suicidal thoughts brought up by antis once.

Honestly I feel like shippers who act entitled on social media became this way because, among other reasons, the writers and casts of tvshows were overly nice to them and not allowed to say ‘enough, I’ll block you if you insult me’ or even a simple ‘we are only celebrating canon couples, fanon combinations are infinite and we can’t address them all, so we won’t be talking about those’. Instead they had to be as nice as possible, whether it was because they didn’t want to alienate fans and lose money or because they genuinely cared doesn’t matter in this context. More often than not it’s just because they are being taught that if they don’t say yes they’ll be ‘cancelled’ by fans who are using real life issues and criminalizing actors, and they also know that nobody will dare backing them up to avoid getting in trouble with the network, or with whoever is telling them that the customer/fan is always right. You can’t tell a customer to go the hell if you are working at Starbucks and even less so in public, like on twitter, because good luck getting hired if you treat fans like ‘crap’. Doesn’t matter that they deserve it, people in charge want money and the money comes from all people watching the show, nobody should be pushed away by an actor who is trying to protect their mental health by standing up to bullies, the actor has to smile and wish them a nice day like a Starbucks cashier and allow more abuse, so that the customer will return. There are some exceptions, some people are allowed to respond, just like some cashiers can, but it’s not the norm. The norm is now writers walking on eggshells because how dare them say their story is their damn story. It’s actors not allowed to have an opinion or to explain what they are trying to portray because they will ruffle feathers. So this teaches these fans to keep going, and the more these fans gain approval the more the writers and cast bend. I remember Jennifer Morrison during ouat retweeting a fan who made, if I’m not wrong, tea-bags which were dedicated to the canon couple she was part of, and she, as a real person, was accused of supporting rape culture because antis had decided that her character’s canon boyfriend was a rapist, even if it wasn’t shown on screen (but he made references to sex! and is a pirate! so he had to be!) and therefore JMo showing that she liked her canon ship meant that she was pro-rape, not exactly a light accusation. Then they proceded to harass her so she’d say how much she liked the tea dedicated to their fanon couple - (involving a female canon rapist just to add irony). And to be clear given the nature of her job Jen wasn’t allowed to say she didn’t like that ship, because that would hurt their feelings, wasn’t allowed to say it’s a fanon ship and that she wanted to discuss canon things, wasn’t even allowed to ignore it, she’d be attacked even more than she already was. Hell, she was accused of homophobia (and of gay panic by people who clearly don’t know what that means) because she didn’t pose for photos with the other actress they shipped her with often enough (they shipped her character Emma with Regina, who was played by Lana Parilla, and shipped her with Lana), nor did enough offscreen things with her. It was clear that Jen and Lana weren’t close in real life and that the fans made it worse - but why would it matter how they feel as people, right? They had to dance like moneys for the fans. If Jen didn’t sit close to Lana it had to be because she hated that the fans would ship them or their fanon couple, not because as a human she has preferences. (Btw, if people are being weird about you and your coworker, it’s totally fine to feel uncomfortable and step away).

Sounds familiar, if you are from the Supergirl fandom? It’s the same people, yeah. The ones I mentioned at the beginning of this post. That’s why I said that it’s not ‘lgbt fans’ it’s literally the same people over and over, they just happen to project on wlw couples. But there are other fans like this as well and they have their own mlm and mlw couples to harass people for. The Supergirl cast was literally harassed by fans who wanted Kara and Lena together. Eventually during a group interview they sang about how Kara and Lena were just friends and had a laugh, which btw is a great way to fight bullies, to let them know their words can’t hurt them and they will be laughed off, and, as far as I know, to this day people who don’t know the behind the scenes will only hear that the cast of Supergirl mocked a lesbian fanon couple and its lgbt fans, cruelly, laughing at them for daring to ship two women. Homophobic monsters. All except the actress who plays Lena who was visibly upset (in the story of course, in reality she laughed too). Several public apologies had to be made to make up for this evil act. They weren’t allowed to explain or defend themselves after (because of the new rule that if someone is hurt by your behavior, explaining yourself means you aren’t apologing and you are abusive). They had to take in more abuse and shut up. Real life consequences that started from abusive tweets going unpunished and made them risk reputation and jobs, as well as led to actually lgbt people who may have looked up to them being told what ‘they had done’ and be hurt by this. Context didn’t matter, even if it’s al that actually matters because it completely changes what you saw. People genuinely believed/believe the cast was that horrible and that was cruel out of nowhere, more people have joined the fandom and bought into it, confirming their own bias whenever they watched the show and saw only what they wanted to see.

So these fans got to demand attention and to have the writers change the show for the loudest fanon ships, and to insult anyone who doesn’t feel like doing so. Not only unpunished for this but sorta rewarded for it. Sure, some shows didn’t cave and didn’t make their ships canon, but the cast had to learn how to be submissive or accept online abusive behavior. OR leave social media in a world where you need it to work, like many were forced to do. And these fans got told over and over that their feelings were ‘valid’, their ships amazing, and got even angrier because if that’s the case why not make it canon? Or got told ‘not going to happen’ and started spreading the notion that there was queerbaiting and the show should be boicotted. This is becoming a common way to react to all shows/movies with sequels, these shows are an example and in a way the place where it started and grew, but now it’s everywhere.

And I want to take the writers and say: just make a ship canon because you want to or tell them it’s not going to happen and stand by it, no more of that ‘equally valid, equally important, have to entertain all shippers’ crap. A fanon ship is not going to be equal to canon ones, it shouldn’t get equally talked about nor be included in every sentence about ships, and there is nothing to apologize for about that. It only exists in these small online places, you go talk to casual viewers and they won’t know of it, it’s not the same. And while we should all have more representation we don’t get to chose which characters get together, we don’t get to write the story. Shippers should learn to handle the truth if they haven’t yet, learn how to handle disappointment, like get a ‘you can ship who you want, it’s amazing you are so invested in our show! However x and y are the canon ship and we don’t plan on making the other one canon, I’m writing x and y together’ and leave it at that. And it should be more than possible to just say ‘this is not what I’m writing, I’m sorry’ if fans insist they are being baited because two characters look at each other. “You ship isn’t canon, it will never be canon, they told you this! So no, shippers of that fanon couple don’t matter now, they are talking about canon and your fanon ship shouldn’t be up there with the others’ “Telling me that I don’t matter because I demand to have my fanon ship constantly brought up is triggering me and making me suicidal, everybody matters all the time!’ is a take I actually read and people apologized for how ‘harsh’ they were being. The concept there was that you can never tell a person they don’t matter in a specific context, they have to matter, in all contexts. You don’t know how much of their identity and will to live a person has attached to a ship or a fandom, and you don’t get to say those words because they may be too fragile to take it (forget the fragility of those bullied every day by these people who can’t take consequences or the truth). Except that there are plenty situations in life in which you won’t matter, and that doesn’t mean that you don’t matter as a person in general. Your neighbor won’t have to think about your feelings on divorce before getting one, you don’t matter there. You still matter as a human being, in general, your life still has meaning, but you won’t and shouldn’t always be acknowledged in every situation that exists around you. And if you can’t understand this concept, if you think your opinion has to matter in all contexts and you have to be given some kind of shake of hand over it or your entire life won’t matter, because you must be important in every context ever, you shouldn’t be engaging in fandoms, you should be getting medical help asap, not making your ability to exist more fragile because it’s dependent on strangers validating you over a ship. You are putting your entire existence in the hands of a fandom, and that’s not only unhealthy but impossible to end well. Go to therapy and if you can’t afford that yet then don’t become a part of groups that require you to tie your identity to them.

Your feelings matter in the sense that you can ship what you want, not that you have the right to demand a response or approval from other actual human beings. My feeling that Jemma and Fitz from AoS (super beloved couple by fans and writers) are terrible for each other means a lot to me, I’ve been super invested for years in that show, wrote essays on why I don’t like this couple (and tagged them properly to respect the shippers), but you know what? This means nothing to the writers and that’s okay. I’m not important to them, I should not expect to have my feelings catered to with tweets that mention fanon couples I like and that ‘acknowledge’ flaws I see. I didn’t harass anyone on twitter, and I certainly don’t think that if I had shipped Jemma with someone else I should have been mentioned in canon-related tweets because ‘every ship is valid’! I didn’t expect fanon couples like Will and Alice or Flynn and Lucy (OUATIW and Timeless) to be mentioned everywhere just because some people loved them and therefore we had to be catered to: I shipped it but I sure as hell didn’t expect to make it real or to change the entire creative process of the people behind the show because I was screaming about it. I don’t expect people to pat my head and tell me what a lovely ship it is and discuss it every time is brought up on twitter. But the majority of writers/casts is trying to be submissive now so they don’t get in trouble and you can literally see posts of fanon shippers laughing about how they are in the right and they will be able to break them. And personally I think these shippers deserve actual real life consequences. No attention to your ship, which wasn’t real anyway, less screentime for it, more direct responses with ‘nope not gonna happen’ and ‘I made it, they are not real people, you can read in that scene what you want but know that’s not what I’m making it and therefore it’s not real’. No actors trying to make these people feel better. They don’t need to apologize for ships not happening or for not shipping them or for wanting to talk about their actual work. People will survive even if the writers don’t tell them just how important and incredible their fanon ship is, even more so because you are not teaching them that this is a correct way to interact with the world and they’ll learn not to expect anything. They have to learn that they may not get what they want even if they ask nicely, and that regardless of that they cannot harass people. They also have to learn that crying wolf by using very real dramatic issues like homophobia and misoginy should have consequences, I’ll say it again: if you publicly accuse me of being pro-rape because I like something made for a fiction couple I get to take you to court.

Also the bullshit of ‘oh my god those mean adult men in the cast are ganging up against a teenager’ said about adult men responding without sugarcoating (but also without insulting) to the hundreth ‘teenager’ who is insulting them, part of a group of people who insults them daily. Teenagers learn how to be adults also by learning consequences to their actions and that they don’t get to say everything they want the way they want, shouldn’t we reinforce this? Or should we let bullies free to online-harass adults every hour of every day? In the end Supergirl the cast by the end was so blatantly pissed to the point that some of them started snapping again, possibly because a guest star kickstarted it (sometimes you need one person to speak up and then others can), and those shippers didn’t get their ship to be made canon, thankfully, because it was way too unreal, but they still got treated better than they deserved. They learned that they can get something if they behave like that, and have the hope that doing worse will get them more.

And I honestly want to go back to writers and cast interacting less with us, to less twitter, less socials, because even if it sucks to lose that privilege it’s better than to let it become a tool in the hands of abusive people. If people can’t, as a group, learn how to use something responsibly, and the people giving it to them are not allowed to react properly, then that something has to be taken away from them. It’s ruining shows, literally, because usually these people have misread, willingly or by accident, everything from story to characters, and to cater to them means that whatever you were doing following your instincts and making a linear story will get messed up, the story will get out of track, the characters will be weird.

I just wish that the networks and all people involved realized just how very few these people are, how their behavior pushes away actual viewers, how it’s not necessarity to take it with a smile so they don’t lose money, and instead all agreed that there can be consequences to their actions. Fans make threats or claim that someone is -racist/homophobic/sexist/pro rape- without proof? they get sued for threats/diffamation. Fans gets graphic about their sex fantasies involving two coworkers? They get sued for sexual harassment. Fans bully? they get shut down. They are told the truth. I’d respect and watch a show more if that was an option.

#antisupercorp #antiswanqueen #ouat #supergirl #karamel #supergirl cast #ouat cast #antilena #antireginamills

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bougiebutchbitch · 3 years ago

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I love kakagai, I think it's the ship that makes sense the most but what I dislike is how kakagai shippers saying it's canon, kakaobi shippers saying it's canon, kakairu shippers saying it's canon, hell even kakasaku and kakanaru shippers are claiming it's canon too just because Kakashi cared about them ಠ益ಠ Does canon mean that I like it so everyone else has to like it too now? It's infuriating to me that everyone likes to sexualize every beautiful relationship in Naruto then claim it's canon

okayyyyy I think you might need to take a step back, nonnie.

Is this really such a big issue? Are people attacking you personally, or are they just stating their personal interpretations of canon, and because they don't align with your own, you're getting upset and coming into people's inboxes to try and make it an argument?

Basic rule of Tumblr: if people say what you don't like... block them. Don't react. Don't come into people's inboxes, don't post hate in the tags where fans will see it.

By all means, share your negative opinions! Your tumblr blog is your own. But you need to take measures to ensure the fans won't see it, otherwise you're not venting. You're trying to start a fight.

And come off anon so I can block you properly lmao

Look, people have different interpretations of 'canon'. Just because, for all we know, Kishimoto intended every single character except the creepy pedo-coded villain to be read as cishet, it doesn't mean there isn't canon subtext, however unintentional, that people can pick up on and adore.

Sure, the canon content can be read completely as platonic. But honestly, I'm a little weirded out at how you seem to think that seeing hints of a romantic relationship in canon between men in a children's show is ‘sexualisation’.

Where might that train of thought be coming from??? HMMMM I WONDER. :stares at the Don’t Say Gay bill, and every other argument that queer content is somehow inherently sexual:

Obviously, I'm not a fan of teacher/student ships. At the end of the day, I'm a firm believer in 'everyone can write what they want so long as they tag it properly so I can avoid it'. But seeing an adult and a child who are very close, and perceiving them as 'romantically involved', is a WHOLE lot different from seeing two adult male characters and thinking 'oh I can see a canon subtextual romantic relationship here'.

I don't really think they should be compared like this. I'm sure this wasn't your intention, but it kinda makes it sound like you're putting them on a moral playing field, which... no. :/

Of course, I may be being uncharitable. I admit that this whole issue might just be a muddle of terms. I and a lot of people use 'canon' to mean 'content in the source material'. This is different from 'Word of God', which means 'word of the author'. The two do not always align. However, if you see 'canon' as meaning 'both the source material and Word of God in combination', I can see that you might be upset that people are going against Kishimoto's personal views. I still don't think this is an excuse for actually bothering shippers about this, but I can understand it.

But the point remains: I haven't seen anyone say 'this is a canon ship and therefore you have to ship it'. Why would they? Everyone knows that shipping doesn't 'have' to follow canon anyway. A canon ship is of no greater or lesser worth than a non-canon one.

If people are implying otherwise, they're asses - but in that case, why come for the entire kakagai fandom, rather than just blocking those Schrodinger's Assholes who I've never had the misfortune to meet?

I just. I cannot see how people interpreting a romantic element in a canonically close relationship that is only assumed to be platonic because the couple is m/m rather than m/f is hurting you, anon. And it definitely doesn’t justify harrassment, which is what my original post was about.

#this might be too mean but honestly I'm still pissed off lmao #it sounds like you need to take a long hard look at the real reason you're upset #I'm sensing some big ol' homophobia vibes #even if that's unconscious just. think. about some of this. is it really sexualisation?#is it really like saying canon supports adult/child romance?#is it. really.

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nikethestatue · 3 years ago

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Greetings, Nike.

I am starting to genuinely feel worried about the credibility of Elriel. On all social media platforms (other than Tumblr for my algorithm), I really only see Gwynriel content and theories.

I understand and believe Elriel has canon book content with tons of foreshadow. I truly want them to be endgame. But what if Gwyn is really there for Az? Ngl it kinda terrifies me lol

What if the scene at the end of Azriels bonus chapter was Gwynriel ??? A point a Gwynriel shipper brought up was, Elain doesn’t have the habit of returning gifts. Greysen, Lucien— so why Azriel? I felt a little stumped but I do know it was because she felt rejected.

I just want Elain and Azriel to be together. I need some reassurance lol

Hello!

Firstly, don't worry. Just because they are loud, doesn't mean that they are right. They don't like Elain. That's all. Guess what, many people HATED Nesta (still do), hated Chaol, hated Rowan, hated Rhys (still do)--at the end of the day, it didn't matter. SJM wrote what she wanted to write, told the story she needed to tell, and that was that.

Now, SJM could've written Gwynriel very differently, given something more concrete, given actual interest on part of Azriel towards her, but let's just stick to the beloved POV. If she wanted to set up Gwynriel and since the POV is the the biggest salami out there, hanging for the Gwynriels as 'proof', why, i am curious, would she write the entire part with Elain/Rhys/almost kiss/necklace? She could've just written the Gwyn part. The set up could've been exactly the same--Azriel is returning from Solstice, he is angry, moody, jealous of his brothers, wants a girlfriend. Enter Gwyn! Just write the Gwyn-only portion. Change something with the necklace--let's say he gives her a little gift, even impromptu gift through Clotho. All of that would be much more indicative of interest, of potential.

Instead, you have the Elriel and Rhys portion--where literally, a ton of stuff was suggested, sort of set up, and revealed. Mutual interest, prohibition, Blood Duel, necklace. What exactly was set up in the Gwyn part of the POV? Nothing. She has no bearing on the story as a whole. She is not related to anything that's happening.

Now, onto the necklace. There are different opinions on the significance of the necklace, where some Elriels think he won't play much of a role going forward, like the little book that Cassian tossed into the Sidra. I am of different opinion and I think the necklace will play a role, because I think that the necklace is Made in some way. There is too much back and forth with this necklace, and while I don't think it will play any romantic role/love triangle thing, I think it may possess certain power. That's why Elain (had to) return it. We don't know what Elain knows, what she Sees. We don't know what and how she feels about things. So it's very premature to make any far-reaching opinions about her.

On the surface, and let's stick with that for now, she returned it because it actually shows HOW hurt she was by his rejection. Obviously with Graysen, she couldnt go back to the Human Lands and give the ring back, but she took it off eventually. With Lucien, she keeps showing how indifferent she is towards him through her non-usage of his gifts. With Azriel, it's actually the opposite--it's an action, not passivity. Basically, she is salty. And she lets him know she is salty. She feels rejected and she does the only thing she can in this situation--gives the gift back.

(If somebody thinks that all of this will not be discussed and handled in the next book, well, they are mistaken).

Finally, there is literally no drama, no conflict, no nothing with Gwyn and Az. "I like you, you like me, let's get together'--is that the book? We know SJM will NOT WRITE A LOVE TRIANGLE with two women fighting over a guy. Let's assume Elain steps aside. Gwynriel happens. Then what? That could be done in the first 10 pages. Then what? There never seem to be any answers beyond the vague 'Illyrian plot' which of course is BS. They think she is going to write another book about training? In ACOSF, there was still Nesta (though it seems like people forgot about her), who was Making objects, finding Trove Objects, going to Prison, killing Death Gods, etc. She was the Cauldron Made character with power.

Anyway, I can write and write and write about this...And give like 182718937 examples. :)

Bottom line is, there is no Gwynriel book, as it stands right now. Also, I am pretty sure she'll be given a LI in the next book (not Az), so all of this will be forgotten.

Don't worry. Even ignoring all 4 books of foreshadowing, and going ONLY by the POV, there are like 9 things going on with Elriel that could potentially happen (forbidden romance, Blood Duel, bond rejection? bond acceptance? Rhys vs Az, Lucien, Elain's powers, etc). With Gwyn....no so much.

#pro elriel #elriel #pro elain #elain #acosf #anon ask #anon response

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captnjacksparrow · 4 years ago

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I just got into the fandom and I love it so much. However, there are parts where I just cringe. I’m going to be completely honest when I say I can’t see SS being a thing, a healthy one at that. A rumor said that Sasuke always had feelings for Sakura but he didn’t know how to show them because hatred blinded him. I just... find it utterly bullshit. Hell, even I do ship narusasu, I tried to be open minded and not fall too far off canon or the characters. I don’t understand how Sasuke had those feelings for her when all he did was shown the opposite and it felt genuine. He seem always annoyed and pushes her away. She kept forcing her feelings on him when he makes it clear that he’s not interested. I don’t hate the ship because it’s not my ship but because it’s extremely toxic. It feels one-sided (Sakura’s side) more than anything and it’s makes it hard to believe he had those feelings for her. I mean, on the second episode of season five, she confessed and poured out her heart and he blew it off. I cringed hard and was beyond disappointed because she’s making it about herself. That’s literally how I feel about their damn “relationship”. She made it about her and her only. When he’s hurting, it’s about her. It’s so annoying and it makes me see how self-centered Sakura. When she said she understood Sasuke, I wanted to scream (I nearly did but my family is sleeping and I don’t need a lecture.) She doesn’t know Jackshit about Sasuke besides he’s the only survivor of his decease clan, he’s a loner who cares only about himself, and he’s attractive. She’s just like every other fangirl expect she’s on his team. I’m trying my best not to hate her but Damn she’s really pushing it. Anything that annoyed me was that she made it seem like they were dating, again making it about herself and her feelings. She sent Naruto to get Sasuke for her benefits, so she can keep him. Again, disregarding Sasuke’s feelings and what he wanted. Naruto should’ve said “I’ll bring him back because HE wants too, to keep HIM safe, not for you.” I just can’t with this ship. I’m still wondering why the hell is it even a thing? Also find it beyond pitiful how she stayed with Sasuke in Boruto when he left for 12-13 years?! No note. No checking up. Nothing. Hell, Sarada doesn’t know how her own father looks like or the truth of her mother. Both of them were miserable and I find it absolutely ridiculous when SS shippers still say “they’re in love” or they’re OTP. If that’s what true love looks like (good thing it’s not), then I’d die single. I can’t be the only one who thinks this ship is just as bad as Harley Quinn x Joker.

First off, Thanks for this lovely ask @larrycherry04 ❤️❤️❤️❤️ I've always wanted to write about this and your ask is the perfect timing.

Disclaimer: SS shippers, Sakura fans!!! Don’t read this post!!

Me being an SNS shipper, I am just going to write this from a non-SNS perspective. Meaning, I am going to consider Naruto and Sasuke are just friends or rivals.

Bear with my lengthy answer.

Where do I even begin?

A rumor said that Sasuke always had feelings for Sakura but he didn’t know how to show them because hatred blinded him.

I think this rumor is from a light novel called Akatsuki Hiden or whatever shit. But for me, it looks like a pathetic attempt to convince those horny women shippers who would pay any money to read a romance which mirrors their own love life where they desire an ‘unreachable & handsome’ man who has this ‘cool & overbearing’ aura and carries this ‘bad boy badass’ vibe. They would do anything to get the attention from this boy. Until this point is where the reality ends.

What they really wants to happen and fantasize is somehow that handsome man, one day, will look only them and recognize their love and becomes a ‘soft’ guy who would bring the heavens for them and treats her like a princess. That fantasy led them to buy these novels and believe everything while completely disregarding the canon material. And those novels are aimed at these type of women.

You must have been wondering now, ‘I have seen these type of shit somewhere’!!!!!

That’s right.

50 Shades of Grey, Twilight, Beauty and the Beast, 100′s of K-Drama, C-Drama follow this shit romance trope and it’s regrettably fucking popular.

In other words, Don’t believe anything apart from the canonic resources.

Let’s dissect the canon materials about SS.

TEAM 7

This is how it all started

Does anyone see anything positive here????

Well, I am not.

Sakura wanted to impress Sasuke. Since, Naruto always picks fight with Sasuke, she badmouthed Naruto in the hopes that Sasuke will recognize some common ground with her which may develop into a friendship. But she shot her own foot.

[Regardless, I hated her here and she never redeemed herself, for her being completely insensitive & oblivious towards Sasuke’s life, the boy she loves]

Technically, Sasuke should have said ‘You’re Annoying’ towards Naruto for kissing him before the class and tying him up later. Here, Sakura is simply badmouthing another guy. He, somehow, find this very annoying than anything Naruto did earlier.

Sasuke always had feelings for Sakura but he didn’t know how to show them because hatred blinded him.

Am definitely not seeing any feelings here.

ZABUZA ARC

Alright, much later, somehow Sasuke started to integrate into team 7 and started to see them as a Family. No denial here. He started to care about everyone in his team at some point. Which was evident from the way he thought to himself, ‘That was Sakura’s voice... What is Kakashi doing?’

But does it means he hopelessly fell in love with her??? Nope.

It’s just a team camaraderie where he was worried about his teammate. If he has special feelings towards her, he should have said ‘I must go save Sakura’ or something along the line.

But, later in that episode, he went on to die for Naruto and even at his dying moments he didn’t think about Sakura or Team 7. It was all about someone else.

Even seconds before falling into Naruto’s arms, Sasuke was smiling with no regrets.

It was funny very later that after he got up from his temporary death, rather than consoling her like ‘Sakura, Don’t cry. Am alright’ or anything, he was asking ‘Where’s Naruto?’. LOL.

Even much later, when Sakura was asking him about a date, he bluntly said ‘I refuse’.

So, you’re telling me, throughout this arc, a boy blinded with hatred can able to pout, play childish games, train and die for a boy but when it comes to Sakura he can’t show his feelings???

Sorry, I don’t see romance here. Not in this arc.

Whether you agree or not, every parent has their favorite child, every child has their favorite parent. Even within your family, you always have a special person.

For Sasuke, Itachi was that person in his real family. Sakura was not that person in his Team 7 family. It was Naruto.

CHUNIN EXAMS ARC

This arc is where those SS shippers celebrates a lot and I know why. Remember earlier I talked about that shitty 50 Shades of Grey romantic trope??? The following scene vaguely falls under that pattern.

A guy loses his control because of a cursed seal and beats up the guys who hurt one of his teammates which happens to be a girl and calms down after seeing the girl.

That Infamous back hug.

I understand why SS people lose their mind with that scene. And I don’t blame them. I am going to throw their own proof at them.

So, this First databook, tells us that he finally sees both Naruto and Sakura as comrades and his heart softens from the path of revenge, a little bit.

Definitely, Sakura’s tears or love towards him stopped his rampage. But nothing says about whether Sasuke loves her back.

Much later, Sasuke also stops his cursed seal on his own after thinking about worried Sakura and a screaming Naruto (Who don’t know about this seal thingy at that time).

Well, whatever. That databook has another funny fact, that too in the same page.

LOL. Weird!!!! This accidental kiss unravels Sasuke’s heart ❤️❤️???? 🤣🤣🤣

So, influencing Sasuke’s heart can be attributed to both his teammates,according to this databook. Atleast upto this arc. There are no special feelings for Sakura alone, guys.

Proof?

If Sasuke really considers her in a romantic light (this is after that back hug), he doesn’t have to do this at all. Believe me, Love is all about subconsciously or purposefully enjoying or feeling little touches. Those touches can be through eyes, memories or physical. Sakura is delighted with his touch because she loves him but Sasuke just see her as a comrade and keeping his distance but this time very politely.

If Kishi really likes these couple, he doesn’t have to make this scene at all. It’s not just this one instance, he rejected her twice very bluntly before this saying ‘Don’t cling to me!!!’, ‘Sakura, you’re heavy!!!’.

If you say her back hug is a token of romance, then I can say ‘this’ kiss is also a token of romance. You can’t ignore one while keeping the other.

Anyways, at the end of the arc, Orochimaru is the best judge to identify who can change Sasuke’s heart. And that person is not Sakura.

DEPARTURE

she confessed and poured out her heart and he blew it off. I cringed hard and was beyond disappointed because she’s making it about herself. That’s literally how I feel about their damn “relationship”. She made it about her and her only. When he’s hurting, it’s about her. It’s so annoying and it makes me see how self-centered Sakura. When she said she understood Sasuke, I wanted to scream (I nearly did but my family is sleeping and I don’t need a lecture.) She doesn’t know Jackshit about Sasuke besides he’s the only survivor of his decease clan, he’s a loner who cares only about himself, and he’s attractive.

You know what, Larry??? You are 1000% right.

But, atleast, I thought she was genuine in the first part of the proposal, like saying ‘Revenge is not good’.....bla bla.. Because, Revenge will never satisfy a person completely and I agree. Then she took a 180 degree by saying ‘Take me with you, Sasuke-Kun. I’ll make you happy’. This is where I lost it entirely. ‘Alright Bitch, So you really don’t care about his revenge or health. As long as you have the chance to get inside his pants, you are okay with it. So you are okay with Sasuke going to Orochimaru as long as you are with him..... Fucking Shit!!!!’ This is not okay at all.

How did Sasuke respond?

“Why should I have to tell you anything”

“I’m telling you to keep your nose out of my business”

“Stop bothering me over everything I do”

Ummm..... where I come from, this screams ‘Irritation’ to me. Added to it, throughout the whole conversation he never saw her face. There was evidently no pain or anything from his face. On top the cake, here comes the cherry

“You really are...annoying”

This is where he saw her face throughout that painful confession before knocking her out. Umm... When you love someone or atleast feel for someone, you will look in their eyes and speak some farewell words before you leave. Or atleast show some pain??? There’s visibly nothing from Sasuke’s face.

Alright, I know what SS wankers will pull out here. That Databook 2 with some vague words. I am going to throw this at them.

Again, like I acknowledged before, he considers her as a comrade and part of a family. So, her existence also eased his loneliness. But you have to look at the word choice here. “The one that filled his lonely existence was Sakura”. It’s not the ‘Only’ person. Before he left he said ‘Thanks’. Meaning, Thanks for all these days. That’s all between us.

This piece was about the Team 7 picture. So he acknowledges, he was not alone during his genin days because of his companions and Kakashi (so it’s not just Sakura to ease his loneliness). Whatever he said to Sakura was real.

So can we safely confirm “You’re annoying” is real????

But what’s really interesting is the way Sasuke projects himself before Naruto. I am going to refrain myself from attaching all those rollercoaster of emotions flowed throughout the fight in VoTE 1. Otherwise, it will become an SNS post.

However, this particular scene caught my attention.

Ummm.... Initially Sasuke walks without looking at Naruto. Then he looks back and answers him.

Naruto was pretty much asking the same question as Sakura. “Why does it come to this?”

But Sasuke pauses and surprised for a moment and asks him pretty much “Why do you care about me?”

Why couldn’t Sasuke do the same with Sakura???? Kishi can pretty much make a panel or two rather than making some insulting panels.

Anyways, If they throw the databook, then I can also throw the same.

Alright, can someone explain the highlighted sentence for me???? Because I want to confirm whether I have a blurry vision.

Here, Sasuke is trying to punctuate Naruto as a different person from the rest of his companions. ‘his companions as well as that with Naruto’, I mean, Come on!!!! Naruto is also one of your companions along with Sakura. Why differentiate????

‘The village, companions, Naruto,....’ . Again....He is differentiating his home (village), companions (his friends), and Naruto. So who is Naruto for him? What is the need to make exception for Naruto? It’s very clear he is placing Naruto at a high pedestal for some unknown reasons.

Before this Databook dissection, remember I said something about saying Goodbye, ‘ When you love someone or at least feel for someone, you will look into that person’s eyes and speak some farewell words before you leave‘

Sasuke is doing exactly that here in this scene without saying anything.

Am sorry SS shippers, you can scream all you want about Sasuke knocked her out and left her on the bench. But there was no emotional distraught when he left her. Sasuke seemingly spent a longer time staring at Naruto than looking at Sakura when she confessed.

OROCHIMARU HIDEOUT

Well, there is nothing I can say about here for SS. He pretty much saw her and said, “Sakura, huh?”.. And that’s all. He didn’t give two shits about her.

His attention was completely on someone else.

UNDER THE BRIDGE

She sent Naruto to get Sasuke for her benefits, so she can keep him. Again, disregarding Sasuke’s feelings and what he wanted. Naruto should’ve said “I’ll bring him back because HE wants too, to keep HIM safe, not for you.”

Naruto pretty much said the same thing in this arc, Larry. Naruto, in part 1, was happy for Sakura feeling the same about Sasuke as him, that is ‘To bring him back’. And also sad that his crush really loves someone else. But after Sakura gave up on Sasuke and faking her confession, Naruto decided, ‘Alright, I want to save him personally. I don’t care about our promise anymore”.

This is where, SS ship goes into a crazy ride and it’s not a positive one.

Sasuke was on a rampage. He lost the ability to differentiate between his friends and foes. He stabbed Karin. And when he find her alive, he was about to Chidori her.

And then comes the pink princess, full of lies and deceit. And Sasuke being impatient and disgusted with her lies, he does this

Well, in part 1, she had a degree of power to change his heart. But not here. He, instead, got riled up more and even tried to kill her without a warning and that too by not looking at her face. Pathetic!!!!

This scene screams ‘Trust issues’ from both sides.

Did it stop here???

Fucking Shit!!!!!! Is there any people who still ship this nonsense?. If you are a Sakura fan, you should hate her for the lack of trust and backstabbing the person she loves,

If you are a Sasuke fan, errrrmmm.....I have nothing to say. You know what to do.

There is nothing positive here, that can make me ship them. He is killing her like a Mosquito.

If you truly loved someone in the past, even in your darkest moments, you will be honest and you cannot fake before that person.

Proof??

Here, Sasuke had a clear resolve to kill his brother, Itachi. He lived for this moment for about 8 years and immersed himself in Darkness for 3 years with Orochimaru. He could have run away, dodge or look away from Itachi. But Sasuke simply couldn’t!!! You know why?? Sasuke loved Itachi once more than anything in this world. At this moment, he is letting all those defense loose and embracing the moment and see what Itachi was about to do. Because somewhere in his heart he trusts Itachi.

But killing Sakura doesn’t make Sasuke feel anything. She is just another victim like Danzo or Karin or all those Samurais or a fucking mosquito!!!!

So you are telling me that Sasuke had feelings for her but kept it hidden all along and still tried to kill her like a pest???

Give me a fucking break!!!!

And you all know, who changed Sasuke’s heart here in this scene. It was not Sakura. There’s absolutely no reason for Sasuke to listen to that person and what’s more, Sasuke even made a promise (despite being in darkness, he had it in his heart to listen to that person) to destroy Konoha only after killing that person ..

WAR ARC

Well, this is the arc where Sakura behaves like a rabid dog on heat waiting for Sasuke and shamelessly trying to wag her tails. But Sasuke didn’t give two shits about her, not once or twice but multiple times.

MOMENT 1

An explosion was about to kill the whole shinobi alliance and this dude wants to save Jugo, his companion and Naruto, the person who will challenge his Revolution, his rival and the one whom he wants to kill. Why only Naruto??? Why not Naruto and Sakura???

Pink cherry Queen doesn’t even crossed Sasuke’s mind. Because he already threw her away in part 1.

MOMENT 2

Alright Bitch!!! The entire shinobi alliance was dying on the other side of the battlefield. And this asshole is doing a clownshow before Madara just to get inside Sasuke’s pants????

I mean, Come On!!!!

Well, if Sasuke truly likes her, he should be the one to have catched her or atleast should have asked her, ‘are you alright??’

I am sorry, where are the romantic feelings???

MOMENT 3

ROFLLLL🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

For the first time, Kishimoto is trolling those Sakutards through Sasuke’s words, what we, readers were right about all along. He is calling her useless here. And still these fake feminazis trying to ship her with him???

Don’t you guys have any self respect??? If so, this should be the moment to jump out of this trash ship.

MOMENT 4

Geez!!! You are still on this ship?????

He clearly doesn’t want to save her at all. The hawk can clearly lift 3 people. Sasuke is not even making an effort here.

And you are still yapping that he is blinded by darkness???

MOMENT 5

This is the moment SS calls it as ‘eyesmex’... While in reality, he was just looking at her and silently thanking her for helping him out. Do you know what is a real ‘eyesmex’??? I will attach it at the end.

If you guys pull this as true love, then he should have stayed in the same love till the end. But Sasuke has other ideas.

This is the one of the funniest thing in this arc. LOLLLLL

Instead of being relieved that Sakura was saved, Sasuke was wondering about Kakashi’s Susanoo.....and Sharingan.

Do people still think he cares about her????

MOMENT 6

Am cackling here, while dissecting the sorry state of this ship guys 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣!!!! If something good happens to me because of SS , it’s just the way you guys are making me laugh by making a clown out of yourself!!!!

Do you guys know something? There was a man named Itachi. Before massacring his clan, the very first person he killed was his ‘supposed’ Girlfriend, named Izumi. I wouldn’t say Itachi loved her like a lover boy. It was just one sided on her part. He just talks to her when he finds a spare time and considers her a good friend.

Do you know how he killed her?

By putting her in a ‘Tsukuyomi’. And what kind of Tsukuyomi, you ask?

Can you see how he fulfilled her dreams gracefully before he was going to kill her???

Why didn’t Sasuke do this???? Why particularly select a murdering genjutsu????

MOMENT 7

He said it, finally.

He don’t love her at all. There was no hidden feelings. He admitted from his own mouth.

One day later, after the final VoTE battle ends.... After exchanging some intense feelings and even crying tears of happiness with Naruto....

Sasuke tells Sakura, ‘Sorry’....

Ummm.... That’s all???

All those negative shits happened before cannot be solved by just simply saying ‘Sorry’ and ‘Thank you’. If someone has an ounce of self-respect, they should know this is not OKAY at all...🙅🏻‍♀️🙅🏻‍♀️🙅🏻‍♀️🙅🏻‍♀️

Am Sorry, but Sasuke was just being politely blunt, kind of insincere towards Sakura and turned his attention somewhere else in a matter of minutes. He was not even bothered by Sakura’s tears here. Instead staring at someone on his left. Remember I talked about touching the person physically and visually?

Sasuke is subconsciously or purposefully touching someone on his left through his eyes. Definitely it’s not Sakura. You know who it is. Remember SStards’ infamous ‘eyesmex’... I seriously believe this is a perfect example of ‘eyesmex’.

All these intense looks and feeling pain still doesn’t serve Sakura, even after pulled out of darkness. If there is a moment, where SS wants to shine, then this is where it should be. He should have told her, how he missed her all along, how he felt about hurting her, should have wiped her tears and some corny shit. But instead, Sasuke went for a long ass monologue for his friend and talking about sharing his pain.

What about your kween’s pain????

You don’t have to ship SNS. But you should know where Sasuke’s priorities are.

It’s not Sakura.

Sasuke said ‘Sorry’ to Karin too. ‘Thank you’ to Kakashi as well.

And what’s even more pathetic is, still Sakura wants to get inside Sasuke’s pants by accompanying him. Bitch, you can help your village, console your best friend Ino who lost her father, try to surpass Tsunade, improve your skills or whatever... Why bother him???

So, if you really think ‘Thank you’ as a token of love, then I can’t help it but term Sakura as a rabid dog who waits for her master to come home and throw some bones whenever he finds time. Your standards for a romantic love is piss poor and you will suffer just like Sakura in Boruto with just emptiness. All Sasuke did was poke her forehead just like Itachi which symbolizes keeping someone at a distance. He also said the same words to her just like Itachi said to him many times ‘Mata kondo da’ meaning ‘Maybe next time’. And we all knew that next time never came for Sasuke.

Now all we see is a Sasuke as an absentee father in Boruto for which I don’t blame him. He was never a marriage material in the first place. Sakura and the Manga Editors forced him and she is paying for it.

Hell, Sarada doesn’t know how her own father looks like or the truth of her mother. Both of them were miserable and I find it absolutely ridiculous when SS shippers still say “they’re in love” or they’re OTP.

All I want to say to SS shippers is, Your Ship Has Sailed Already. You cannot expect Sasuke to go lovey dovey towards Sakura with a 12 year old daughter around and for fuck’s sake, this is not a romance manga, it’s a battle manga. So stop dreaming about this kind of non-existential romance and pull yourself altogether.

#naruto analysis #ask #sasunaru #sasunarusasu #anti sakura #anti sasusaku

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pupmkincake2000 · 4 years ago

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Once again. The fandom is 3 years old for Lord’s sake!

I understand people have the right to dislike HankCon but they don’t have the right to gatekeep them.

First of all, why am I attacked only for being on defferent web sites just because I want to support my ship, to express my love and adoration to it and yes, I tag it, because I want it to be seen.

I am NOT ashamed of shipping them and NO HAnkCon shipper should!

Is this a crime? Why other shippers tag their favourites however they want but they shame me for doing the same?

I registered everywhere I could as many other shippers did but yet I am told I have no rights to? Isn’t it discriminatory?

And why those people activated so suddenly? Are they pissed because some of hankcon stans stopped being silent and decided to show hankcon love openly?

Or maybe they don't like people expressing what they think and having real and solid arguments? So they feel personally attacked?

And yet I am told to respect other people’s tastes and opinions while the same people do this? Never in life.

Then again. Why there should be less of us?

I am sorry but people ship characters that never met, had no canon chemistry or dynamics, people ship Connor with abusive characters with no redemtion arcs in canon ot with the character that appeares for 2 secs in a bad ending, even with male/female readers and find it NORMAL because they stan for

everyone has the right to ship whoever they want

... SO WHY ONLY WE HANKCON SHIPPERS ARE SO HATED AND ATTACKED? Why people shame us for the ship with the best chemistry in a game that was approved even by non shipping gamers? Is it jealousy?

Can’t you just follow your own rule?

You of cource can say

Except for one detail: THEY ARE NOT A FATHER AND A SON. THERE IS NO HINT IN THE GAME. And if you ship characters who have never met, then you have no right to insult Hankcon and attack its shippers.

“Mainly, it’s driven by people who just plain disliked the ship at first, for no good reason or just a lot of prejudicial and discriminatory ones. Then these people likely spread the wrong idea about their relationship to those who may be similar to themselves or those that want to be good people and morally just. A lot of the people who acquired these ideas second-hand haven’t even played the game to start with and are just rehashing invalid arguments from their echo-chambers - and believe these to be true.

HankCon doesn’t hurt anyone, there’s nothing wrong with this ship. Nothing morally wrong, nothing lawfully wrong, it’s just all kinds of right”(c)

If people don’t get it, it is their own issues and biases.

Oh, and how could I forget?

NO, he doesnt, and people have no arguments except Hank’s age and “son” which are not even arguments. How dellusional this person must be to think a dead child can be replaced by a grown-up robot.

Even if they were father and son canonically WHO FUCKING CARES?! There are plantu examples of such relationship in other fandom and it is not a problem! People ship what they want to ship, right? If it is so, stop insulting HankCon!

And I think HankCon fans must finally fight back!

We should express our love and opinion freely, not hide as if hankcon is something wrong!

#hank #hankcon #detroit become human #detroitbecomehuman #detroit: become human #detroit: dbh #detroit: connor #dbh rk800 #dbh connor #dbh hank #dbh #dbh: connor

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anti-katsuki-lounge · 2 years ago

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Oh, we're talking about shipping now? Because I've been dying to get this controversial hot take off my chest. I don't really ship non canon or headcanon LGBTQ+ things anymore, unless I hate the canon ship, it's confirmed that character is part of the LGBTQ+, or I'm joking. I've been on the internet since I was 7 and it started out just light hearted, not taken seriously fun.We knew our ideas weren't ever going to make it on page or the big screens, but that's the thing, it was just for fun. Now though, I'm 23 and jesus christ, I can't deal with how fandom culture is today! Too many people have this unhealthy mind set, when it comes to shipping and headcanons. Now, for those who have a ration mind and don't foam at the mouth, smash their keyboards, send death threats to everyone involved with canon, when a ship doesn't happen or headcanons don't become canon, I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about the ones who do those things I listed! It's not the end of the world! It's not even real,but they treat it like it is. You know why? Because I think, on a subconscious level, they feel rejected by the ones in charge of canon, personally. I've noticed that people, when they make these ships and headcanons, they are apart of the LGBTQ+ in some way, not always, but most of the time. So, they are doing these things then, canon decides to do something different, because they're writing the story they want, with canon love interest (Who happens to be the opposite sex) in mind, and they aren't mind readers, and then shippers/people who headcanon, flip their shit they way I mentioned. Calling them homphobic, biphobic, transphobic, etc, because, if they don't go with the LGBTQ+ way the fandom wants, then that means, in their minds, writers/producers are rejecting them and if they reject the community they are apart of, that must mean they reject them as a person. Again, I am not saying this is the case with every single person that ships something! Some people can do it rationally and not in harmful way and this is a just a theory of mine. However, it wouldn't surprise me if that was the reason why,as I have seen evidence in the BNHA fandom, Superntaural fandom, Marvel fandom, RWBY, etc.

As someone who is in the LGBTQ+ community, I understand where you’re coming from. You’re free to believe in what you want regarding ships/sexuality/etc as long as you’re not imposing your ideas onto others. Unfortunately, stans will always find a way to make you the bad guy for not liking their ship. For straight ship stans, it’s the “this character is straight” and “straights are the majority lines” they throw around to shit on LGBTQ+ fans who don’t like said straight ship. For the LGBTQ+ ship stans, they usually call someone an “insert phobe name here” to bully someone who doesn’t like a particular gay ship or doesn’t agree with someone’s head canons. I despise some gay ships like BkDk, but I’m not a homophobe. There are straight ships I despise too. Likewise there are gay ships I do like. And if someone doesn’t find gay ships to be their thing, that’s their preference as long as they are respectful about it and allow others to enjoy their ships.

Basically at the end of the day, all stans are bad. In some fandoms, stans in certain groups are more prevalent than others. MHA has a primarily teenage audience, which in turn is full of a lot of members of the LGBTQ+ community, hence why there are numerous stans who are LGBTQ+. Meanwhile, a show that attracts straight people will have a problem with straight stans and homophobia.

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zelzenik · 4 years ago

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my take on the infamous kataang kisses

so i just saw this post that spoke highly of Kataang and on how ATLA deals w consent and what's allowed between partners, and i'm... i'm mad, lol.

this has been spoken on before, but since these bad takes are still floating around on the internet, i feel the need to at least vent/give some sort of rebuttal.

i'm not linking or screenshotting this post, but this is word-for-word what was said regarding Kataang (questionable grammar has been transposed as well):

"One of the many things I adore about atla is how the girls are allowed to and do tell their partners off when they cross a line.... Katara gets upset with Aang for kisses her without her consent, and it's never made out to be overly dramatic or unreasonable, it's framed so that the girls are in the right."

HOW does Kataang properly convey this message??

there's a lot to unpack here. like, a lot

just to start off, yes, i'm aware that not all Kataangers believe that the kisses were consensual and can recognize how problematic (and WRONG) they were. but there are some (many) who do not

for the sake of this rebuttal, we're all going to establish and agree on what happened with the Kataang kisses. personally, in the Cave of Two Lovers episode, i don't believe they kissed - if they had kissed, the creators would've made that known in the show; in the Day of the Black Sun episode, it was clear that Katara was NOT pleased w what went down, same with the Ember Island Players episode; the finale kiss was consensual, however, in my opinion, it made absolutely no sense and came out of nowhere.

this is an address to the following various shippers within the ATLA fandom.

to those who DEFEND Aang's actions toward Katara and JUSTIFY these non-consensual kisses:

don't DO this. these portrayals of murky non-con kisses on television are so harmful!! they perpetuate this whole "nice guy" complex where a guy (or anyone) thinks that he (or they) deserve(s) or can take physical affection from others without their consent/mutual feeling. we have such an awful problem in media concerning these sorts of "nice guys" who wind up taking advantage of women simply due to the fact that they know they're nice and feel that they deserve it.

yes, Aang was a child. yes, he was in an iceberg for like 100 years. i work with plenty of preteens from the ages 10-12, and they've all been taught to respect other people's boundaries, especially when it involves romantic (and depending on how old they are, sexual) encounters; it's worth noting that, at least from my experience, guys are significantly less interested in relationships around this age than girls are!

portraying Aang in a light where he simply takes what he wants from Katara multiple times does a disservice both to him as a character and to all who watched the show without having a clear outside understanding of physical boundaries.

to those who claim that the non-con Kataang kisses are good lessons to others on consent

i might have been able to agree with you had the situations been ADDRESSED within the show! but they were NOT.

the non-con Kataang kisses are not a good example of when a girl has been made uncomfortable by a guy or has been touched nonconsensually by one and stands up for herself because we never have a scene where Katara actually stands up for herself!

between the two non-con Kataang kisses that occurred during the show, not even FRACTION of the show was dedicated toward addressing them!

okay, yes, if you rewatch the show as an older teen or an adult with accurate views on consent, then, yes, those non-con kisses can be an example of how pervasive lack of consent is within our past/current culture

but, for the most part, this show is watched by kids. it's a kids' show. ofc it's grown to be much more beyond a kids' show, and there are so many teens/adults who LOVE the ATLA fandom, and that's totally cool! i'm always anti-harassment and anti-bullying-people-for-enjoying-shows-they-love.

for a show that's primarily marketed to children, though, regardless of the time that it was made in (since the 2000's were far less up to date on consent than we are now in the 2020's), if non-con kisses are included, then they should be addressed.

they can only be good lessons if they're addressed, instead of left hanging and teaching children that such non-con kisses are rewarded.

canonizing Kataang, in a way, validated Aang's blatant ignorance of Katara's boundaries which annoys me to no end.

to those who who say that this behavior was FINE because Kataang canonically dated/married

it's not! it's really freakin not!

do you know how many women experience some form of sexual harassment or assault or rape within their lifetime?? 1 in 6!

and do you know how often these women are unable to do anything about it because the person who attacked them is someone that they love or are involved with?

just because one may be in a relationship with another person doesn't simply excuse this type of behavior.

"no" or "i don't think this is a good idea" or "i'm not feeling this" or "maybe later?" or "i don't feel so good" or "we're in the middle of a war right now" or SILENCE -> NOT CONSENT!!

regardless of your relationship with another person, if they do not respect these boundaries, then they have not respected your damn boundaries.

i don't care if they're your boyfriend or your girlfriend or your husband or your wife or your partner. whatever. if they ignore your boundaries, then they are not respecting you, point blank.

closing

it's no secret that i'm a huge anti Kataanger. i first watched the show as a teenager, and while i initially started the show off loving Kataang, as soon as i hit the non-con kisses, i was immediately turned off from the ship and became a huge Zutara shipper (not even knowing which ship was ultimately endgame but especially loving the dynamic between ZK post-Crystal Catacombs scene).

as someone who's survived a relationship with non-con elements present, i cannot in good conscience ship Kataang because of those non-con kisses.

i love both Aang and Katara too much as characters to see them portrayed in such a way. what hurts the most is that all of these issues COULD have been fixed in the show, if there'd been some sort of reconciliation between Aang and Katara, some sort of encounter where Aang recognized that what he did was wrong and Katara learned that it's okay to say no. but this did not happen. so here i am writing a meta/rant/vent about it.

i understand that this post may not be well received, but this is something i really needed to get off my chest (again) because i hate seeing people praising ATLA for its poor examples of consent within relationships. (it literally drives me crazy.)

#nice guy #this isn't proofread #but #anti kataang #pro katara #anti anti aang #i love both aang and katara #and they were both done so dirty in b3 #i genuinely love both #i would've given kataang a chance had those non-con kisses not happened #despite shipping zutara #i would've j multishipped or smth #but w the way b3 turned out?#hell no #get that away from me #aang needed to grow the hell up and learn #katara needed to stand up for herself and recognize she needs a partner who's an equal #and they could've been that for each other #or #they could've found other people better suited for each other #cough zutara cough taang #but yeah stop praising bryke for giving good lessons on consent cuz all they did is perpetuate the mentality #by validating and rewarding non-con gestures thru kataang's canonity #long post #sorry #i could write abt why i'm anti kataang all day #despite loving them both so much #zel meta

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lochnessies · 4 years ago

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ok here’s a dissection of a post an anon sent me the link to and bc i have the worst time management possible and i completely forgot i had it lol so sorry anon here you go ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜

I am constantly thinking about how Edelgard just doesn’t seem designed to appeal to cishet men.

i hate to be the one to break this news to you op but just because a character doesn’t show skin like charlotte fire emblem doesn’t mean she isn’t designed to pander to men. she’s very much designed to pander to the (majority straight male) player base with her ‘uwu i only trust you professor omg did u see that rat? pls don’t look at my painting of you uwu’.

then there’s the whole edelgard c support in japanese where byleth makes reference to having come to her room for ‘yobi’ which is

there’s also the scene where byleth can make an unsolicited comment about edelgard’s breast size. which is… uhh… gross.

edelgard also has cipher cards that go from slightly fanserviceie to full on suggestive

and also her breast armor that my sister relentlessly mocked lol

and here’s a chart from the 3h subreddit about gender/sexually in regards to edelgard and edeleth. it’s extremely straight male. op might have just overlooked this since they probably don’t go on reddit and stay on tumblr (which unlike reddit is mostly female and has a high lgbt demographic).

Like the joke is that Bleagles is the Gay House, but everything about her feels deliberately non-hetero.

i don’t like where this is going…

She’s dressed in sharp outfits covering her upper body, with proportions that don’t seem exaggerated.

so women who cover up must be lgbt because straight women are naturally more revealing? oh y i k e s

Her poise and the way she effortlessly flourishes her axe exhibits an air of coolness. While titties out =/= character of no substance, Edelgard being dressed more modestly suggests that she wasn’t designed with male-centred fanservice in mind.

“titties don’t equal no substance but here’s my post on how she has more substance because she doesn’t show titties” ok

And she still looks absolutely stunning in her more modest attire (like seriously, I haven’t felt the need to return to cosplay in years but I want to do her academy look so bad).

yes she does. amazing design 10/10. i have a feeling this is the only part i’m going to agree with

Edelgard is intense. She does not mince her words and she is constantly evaluating you. Though she tries, she has a difficult time understanding her peers initially. Early on, she talks about how she would sacrifice herself and others in the name of some greater good. She is terrible at communicating with her peers. She has to be seen as infallible. Her heart has been hardened for years and she assumes she has to stay that way. She also assumes everyone mourns the same way she does - which is why she (kind of insensitively) insists you move on when Jeralt dies. Because to her, grief has to be channeled towards action, or else you’ll get lost in it. This attitude is demonstrated time and time again as she presses on. It can make her come off as cold and unfeeling - but look closer, and she’s anything but.

don’t really have anything to say at this part. it is pretty on the nose though i would slightly disagree with that last sentence a bit. i wouldn’t say she’s as i feeling as hubert is but all of her talks of the war boil down to how she feels and never her victims.

Her story is ultimately about her realizing that to achieve her goals, she needs to let people in and allow herself to want things like cakes and tea parties and lazy days in peace.

????? what ????? her goals include imperialism, ethnic and religious targeting. her story is about having a set of beliefs and mowing down anybody who stands in her way. that has nothing to do with tea, friends, and lazy days. also am i supposed to be sad that she has to get up everyday and work? i do that and i didn’t start a war and only throw a pity party for myself

The game leaves the player guessing as to how involved the Flame Emperor was in each Part I event, makes you feel hurt by her betrayal, and leaves you with a choice: do you follow the orders of the woman who tried to make you a god without your consent, or a young girl with questionable morals about to throw the world into upheaval?

this isn’t an ideal situation but i think i’m going to stick with the woman who tried to make me a god since i’m not selfish and i know it’s not only my desires and life at stake here. plus the green hair slaps ngl

Choosing her of your own volition (not for completionist reasons) requires the basic ability to sympathize with a woman’s pain. It also requires the player to read beyond her unwavering will and dubious methods to get a sense of how deep that pain goes and how the theme of humanity relates to her differently in each route.

i’m not going to touch this since @nilsh13 made a post on it that i’ll link here. i agree with everything he said so to repeat it would be redundant.

The player must be able to see a young woman’s desperate resolve to change the world so it stops exploiting people and ruining lives. They must be able to accept the fact that women can make the same morally wrong and ambivalent decisions that complicated male characters get to make all the time and still be the one to root for.

literally the same reason i love rhea lol her goddess experiments are dubious at best but her reasons are the same you mentioned. i would say that i like this quality in edelgard too if her ending, while bloody, actually ended in a good outcome for fodlan.

This is not unique to LGBT+ people, but this population is likely to understand why Edelgard feels so strongly about why she has to change the system.

i understand wanting to change a system, i really do. like edelgard, i’m an opinionated bisexual woman (who’s also physically disabled) so yeah i get it. and change can be good but it can also be terrible. even if the church was the boogeyman edelgard treats it as she still replaces it with her own shit regime. so it’s the same circus just with a new conductor.

I don’t think “Edelgard gets undue criticism because she’s a woman” captures the full picture. An important aspect of her treatment by certain parts of the fandom is that she’s a radical woman.

or maybe she does some pretty fucked up shit and it goes unacknowledged in her own route. and yeah she’s radical but in all the worst ways.

Her hatred of the Church and the Crest system resonates way harder with people who have been hurt by institutions that are deeply engrained in our society.

and what about people who have been hurt by systems where their ‘merit’ didn’t measure up and they were left behind? what about people from nations that experienced imperialism?

Siding with her means siding against the Church - which, while different from real world religious institutions, still invokes language about “sin” and “punishment.

yeah the ‘sins’ and ‘punishments’ are used in relation to attempted murders which i think everybody can agree is a bad thing that needs to be condemned.

Choosing Edelgard will likely hit different if homophobic and transphobic Christians used that rhetoric against you.

it has literally nothing to do with ‘sins’ and ‘punishments’ in regards to being gay or trans. that’s you projecting. especially since the church has 2 canon gay characters and two coded ones.

like i can understand why having a church condemn you can be uncomfortable but i’m begging you to please look at the context of what’s happening.

I’m willing to go out on a limb and say that the reason F/F Edeleth is the more popular iteration of that ship because most people who would choose to S-support Edelgard are LGBT+ themselves. This is not a revelation. To anyone in the community, it’s fairly obvious.

i was talking to nilish and he said

so yeah… while there is definitely sapphic femleth shippers out there, there’s still a whole lot of weird fetishizing going on from straight men about edelgard.

Crimson Flower was my first route. I went into the game knowing absolutely nothing. I played it during the last week of 2020 and hoo boy was it cathartic.

i can tell. this wasn’t supposed to be a dig but it came out that way and i’m not taking it out.

I felt like I was living out a gay revolution power fantasy, where I could truly change systems of oppression while fighting alongside a group of troubled students I’d shaped the lives of.

so a gay revolution power fantasy (cringe) goes hand in hand with imperialism and installing a dictatorship? also the war had nothing to do with sexuality.

Through your unwavering support, Edelgard learns that she needs to be human, that she must listen to her friends, and that she’s allowed to enjoy the world she’s creating.

edelgard gets to learn how to be human all while hunting those who don’t. and she doesn’t listen fo her friends. she doesn’t even trust them. she’s willing to talk to byleth but keep the people who’s been by her side for five years in the dark about everything. and yeah she gets to enjoy her new words since she’s on top. hate to be a commoner under her rule after she burned down my village in her war.

I love this character so much.

clearly. and i honestly don’t care if somebody likes her. i do as well even if my sometimes scathing words can make it seem otherwise.

It has been six months since I first played and I am still analyzing her,

me too. please help me escape i’m losing my mind

because there’s so much depth. Yet so many people fail to see that depth and dismiss her as evil,

i mean, she does some fucked up shit that goes beyond any of the less than desirable actions of the other main characters and does an extremely poor job in trying to make herself seem innocent. i personally don’t think she’s pure evil but i completely understand where the people who say she is are coming from.

because they never had the will to understand complicated women in the first place.

that’s big talk from somebody who implies that a gay pope is comparable to homophobic and transphobic irl religions and that leads an oppressive regime all because she uses the vague terms of sin and punishments that you have to gay power fantasy your way out of

#i finished this at 1am so sorry if i’m incoherent #mine

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